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Balance Discussion

Torpedo Bombers and Dive Bombers

1/12/2015 7:48:47 PM
Avatar Darigaaz

Hello all! 
 
Before I start.  I love tbing,and  no matter what happens I will still TB even if TB doesn't get any love. Nothing gives me more satisfaction than sending a wave of 15 torp bomber at a BB or any ship for that matter and trying to land all the torps. And yes over all I think CV is actually pretty powerful they are "usually" the deciding factor for most game if the BB knows when to run or when to shoot. IE Staying alive but keeping a zone of no mans land. 

 

Little introduction, I play under the name  Intet and  I am a IJN cv driver.  I have played just about 450 games in my CV. I have a tier7 CV but leveling my guys in my mastered tier6. I been aTBer from the VERY START! Yup! It was painful grind especially those tier 1 and people have seem to smarten up so be worry would-be TBer. 
 
 
 
Now that is out of the way lets get to the point. 
 
TB as of now is underpowered or DB is too powerful compared to TB. How you may ask? 
 
First point 
 
SPEED- TB at the moment is slow, although not that much slower than db you will understand why TB are slow. In fact, most bomber plane are so slow that they can actually be out run by DD or CL. So in theory DD/CL have the same speed or if not MORE than Bugatti Veyron. Are. You. Kidding. Me. If that is not crazy enough. I will tell you how to avoid getting TB'ed. If you manage to see a wave of tb coming in that is about maybe 1~2 hood (battleship) length away. You should try to turn in a way the TB squad is about either 5, 6 or 7 o clock of you. If he tries to torp you just go 1 o clock of your clock and he will really only manage to hit 1~2 torps as long you hit the slow button. If the TB is trying to go on your side then you just have to turn away from the TB when it is about 1 or 2 hood length away. The TB have to travel further because they have to keep away from the AAW meaning they have to travel in a bigger circle. And until they find the right moment to go in, they will keep having try to get closer as soon as possible with out losing any planes unless they are on a suicide mission. Even If they  are, all you just have to do is turn so the TB are on your tail end and your aaw will make mince meat out of them. UK especially will do this especially well. Some people like pepe counter act this annoying ring-a-round tactic by sending TB at all side. Which sounds like a fantastic idea but you are still sacrificing a squad of 3 to hit maybe 7. Not a good trade and not to mention the fact the ship itself have to be alone otherwise the TB run the risk of getting AAW and the time commitment for just one ship? I am sure you are starting to get the picture. While manual DB can land all their bomb without relying too much on positioning and speed and in no time at all. Just lower the plane from golden angle and when ready just use the manual bombing button to quickly reach max height and keep using it as a way to move.  However, the speed version of the TB does make hitting BB a LOT easier with 102.4~ knots. That is 10 more knots than the damage version. You are able to out turn  most bb and land "most" of your TB, but the torpedo that hit deals abysmal damage. Which leads me to my next point. 
 

DAMAGE- Speed torpedo deals about 4~5k damage which is pretty far off from 7.7k if you ask me. And before I go any further. All these damage are averaged out after 8 bombs/torpedo have hit the target meaning the only thing that is being mitigated is defense points. Damage Torpedo deals 6-8k. Again pretty far off from the 11k damage that was in the tool tip. How much damage does a db usually avg you say? About 6-7.5k. Remember DB have 8k damage no matter which nation but what makes them deal damage closer to their max potential is in fact DB have penetration of 1000 (or so I believe at least) and torpedo gets none.  A single DB can easily be as much as 2 speed torpedo or just under or on par with damage torpedo. How can you tell me this is right? 
Torpedo sink ships. Not DB. I remember hearing a quote from a WW2 pilot vet.  
 
"If you want a ship full of holes than send in the dive bomber, if you want a ship under the water than send in the torpedo bomber". 
 
Which I like to agree with that notion. Now I don't want absolute realism FAAAR from it. I escape my life or traffic and job and bad news to play an unrealistic fun game. So onto the armor. Isn't the armor on a ship is rather thin under the water compared to the top of the deck no? So you would think TB should be better at damaging ship over all but that is not the case for NF2.  
 
EASE OF USE- For you to land all your torpedo effectively you need to send a squadron of 2's but that is a lot of squad for very little gain. Lets face it, if you want to hit a DD/SS/CL  you should try to use TB right? Well for most cases yes. But the only way to hit those well aware speed/small ship is you have to come at them at their 12 o clock with 2 squadron of 3's in a spread out fashion and hope they don’t know that they can just make a hard U turn and just out run your torps/plane. But none the less TB are usually the way to go to torping DD and ship like that...till I saw this puu player. He was manual DBing DD while they were zig zagging. That’s when I thought...TB is absolutely pointless and are just a gimmick. seriously! You should see this guy db. It is amazing. I have touched the fact its hard to get the right position but there is one thing I left out that absolutely pisses me off and that is the torpedo height launch restriction. If there is one thing that is more aggregating than playing ring-a-round-a -rosy with a ship that is driving like a Pagani Huayra it is that. When you got your TB allll lined up. You got the most perfect angle you could ever imagine. You got the timing just right it will arm before it will hit. You hit the space bar and you get "torpedo can not be launched at this height' WRAAAHHRAAAAHHHH. You just watch as your idiotic planes fly over the ship while taking AAW and then launched the torpedo right on top of the ship or just out right die to aaw. When that happens you just want to murder everyone around you. For SOME UNSPEAKABLE reason, the plane have to climb to "avoid" colliding with the ship even though THERE IS NO PLANE COLLISION IN THE GAME. And that LITTTTLE TINNNY bit of climb prevent you from launching your plane. Another reason why your plane might not launch is when you do the "dance" to try to launch all your torps at a single point instead a default spread. If one plane is too high the rest of the squad doesn't get to launch their torpedo. Ho-ly-Crap. That is the single most frustrating and weakpoint for torpedo bombing. I can not count how many times where I have lost my TB due to the fact they were launched too close and high up. There shouldn't be a restriction to launching a torpedo at ALL. 
 
TL:DR 
 
Torpedo bomber SUCKS compared to DB. 
 
Fact of the matter is. DB can bomb any target any time under pretty much under any condition. While TB requires more effort, more time, more planes to achieve the same amount of damage potential as DB. 
 
 
Here are some thing that can help TB and remember. I don't want all of these to be implemented but a combination of possibly speed and damage or a nerf to DB. 
 
Speed 
-Make planes move at least half the speed they have posted instead of 1/4 again that Bugatti Veyron reference. 
-Have Damage TB move the same speed as Speed TB and get ride of the weaker version. 
 
 
Damage 

-Get rid of the penetration value of DB or add penetration value to ALL torpedo. 
-Increase Speed TB damage but leave the Damage TB alone. 
-Decrease DB over all damage. 
 

Ease of use 

-TB should have an ability to consolidate or group up planes like DB. 
-TB needs a manual mode to help dive faster like DB. 
-Either increase or get rid of that stupid launch height restriction. 
-Increase the DP/Armor/Evade for TB 
 
Nation Bonus 

IJN and UK overall are pretty bad since their "advantage" comes from increase damage from TB but as I stated before. That 10% increase in damage is hardly noticeable compared to the Fighter bonus US/KM gets. Aside from guns and plane space, overall KM and US are very strong. I am not going to say they are overpowered. No. Over powered mean a guy can just throw his fighter and win. Nope not the case but when they micro just as well as you. You will lose. Think about it! If each fighter point is .11% how many point does it take to keep up with US/KM? 50! and 100 is the skill point cap. Meaning KM/US are that just more powerful at higher level. TB uniqueness pales in comparison to the KM/US fighter uniqueness.  I am not asking for a fighter buff or anything. I don't mind playing a nation whose goal seems to be a "bomber whore" but what good does it do when the bonus I get is hardly worth using?  
 
In the end I didn't pick IJN because they were like the best or anything. I just picked it cause I like to play that nation as some people just play USA because they like USA.  But I like a little something from my nation and I can pretty much speak for UK also. 
 

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